Curse

Holdav · Feb 06, 2008, 10:13 AM // 10:13

The only reason i used a W/Mo was to have a hard res.

Trvth Jvstice · Feb 07, 2008, 02:16 AM // 02:16

Off Topic a bit: A year or two ago, a well known GW tactician (can't remember his name atm, sorry) wrote a very popular and respected guide that explains how the Eviscerate spike is the absolute highest spike dmg possible in the game (I'm sure someone can find it and link to it...). I'm surprised at some of the posts I've seen here putting down Eviscerate. The Eviscerate/ Executioners Chop spike is still the highest dmg spike available in the game as far as I know. If that's no longer true, let's see some numbers.

LightningHell · Feb 07, 2008, 04:02 AM // 04:02

I think the people putting down Eviscerate are joking.

Riplox · Feb 07, 2008, 04:24 AM // 04:24

I play a W/Mo and I get put down sometimes for it until they see me play (pve wise), and then they're like "Ok. You own." I'm usually the last one standing if things go bad during a mission or quest and have finished off groups solo that the rest of the party goes wtf? about, usually just so I can get to resurrecting them :P. I don't use mending or HH, really it's just for res and hex/condition removal. Also, I can't tell you how many times I've been in a group and nobody brings condition removal except me. I've saved many a parties ass before because of that.

Also, I hardly ever pvp and as we know, pvp builds are quite different from pve so on the rare occasion I do pvp, I surprise my opponents on how well I do. I've taken down all classes and only have trouble with hex-heavy builds and super Ele spike. Now, I'm not saying I'm frickin awsome or anything, it's just that an experienced Warrior can hold his own against just about anything.

LightningHell · Feb 07, 2008, 04:35 AM // 04:35

"Last one standing" isn't much of an achievement.

Riplox · Feb 07, 2008, 05:07 AM // 05:07

Well before I got into my current guild, I PUGed a lot of stuff, and seeing as PUGs are notorious for being horrible, I was usually the one to bail them out of a bag aggro. It's tough having crappy monks and some overenthusiastic ranger, elementalist, or wammo aggroing everything on the radar...

Riotgear · Feb 07, 2008, 01:53 PM // 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice

Off Topic a bit: A year or two ago, a well known GW tactician (can't remember his name atm, sorry) wrote a very popular and respected guide that explains how the Eviscerate spike is the absolute highest spike dmg possible in the game (I'm sure someone can find it and link to it...).

I could be mistaken, but Sever-Gash-Final appears to be higher, but has numerous obvious drawbacks: Adrenaline depletion, length, and lacks the lead-in power that a >100-damage Bull's Strike has.

As for "last one standing," I prefer to build things around what happens when my team doesn't screw up hardcore.

Crom The Pale · Feb 07, 2008, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

"Last one standing" isn't much of an achievement.

In fact the warrior should be the first party member to die. The reason being if your party is being overwhelmed its the warriors job to stand his ground and hold as many foes as possible so that the rest of the party can safely retreat.

If the war is the last one standing I would think the monks screwed something up. A war can be resed in the middle of a fight with only 25%hp and survive several hits before needing, the same can not be said for most squishies.

Bloodied Blade · Feb 09, 2008, 01:52 AM // 01:52

There's a slight difference between a whammo and a W/Mo-

W/Mo:

Tanks and relies on monk when any real healing is needed. Carries a hard res and possibly a utility skill like Mending Touch.

Whammo:

Runs into combat screaming "MENDING IS TEH UB3R LEEETZ!" while actually believing it.

Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

In fact the warrior should be the first party member to die. The reason being if your party is being overwhelmed its the warriors job to stand his ground and hold as many foes as possible so that the rest of the party can safely retreat.

True. Unfortunately things never seem to work out that way. One of the squishie casters tends to catch a few too many fireballs.

Tyla · Feb 09, 2008, 11:45 AM // 11:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloodied Blade

W/Mo:

Tanks and relies on monk when any real healing is needed. Carries a hard res and possibly a utility skill like Mending Touch.

Shame (primary variable)/E(Obs Tank) is the only good tank build.
Shame tanks fail though.

Crom The Pale · Feb 09, 2008, 04:02 PM // 16:02

I think what he meant to put there was Agros not tanks.

A war/mo will bring Mending Touch or Purge signet to deal with conditions/hexs and possibly healing signet. He will draw agro and try to pull the mob towards his primary target, usually a caster, that he intends on killing. While he attacks his target, most often using knockdowns to prevent self healing he is taking the brunt of dmg while his party nukes the mob.

A wammo will charge into that same mob, target a tank and start tossing up his anti melee stances + mending/healing breaze and then complain that his monks arn't "backing him up" when he dies or the party wipes.

A Tank is any class that uses skills/spells to increase thier survivability to a point where they can draw massive agro and not require much outside help to stay alive. Tanks deal little or no dmg and require the party to dish out 99% of all dmg. Tanking works but is slow and inefficient.

Age · Feb 09, 2008, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

In fact the warrior should be the first party member to die. The reason being if your party is being overwhelmed its the warriors job to stand his ground and hold as many foes as possible so that the rest of the party can safely retreat.

If the war is the last one standing I would think the monks screwed something up. A war can be resed in the middle of a fight with only 25%hp and survive several hits before needing, the same can not be said for most squishies.

I wouldn't say it is the Monks or 1 of them I would say it maybe one of the other team members like an Ele or a Necro going up to front lines.

I do agree a W/Mo is one that will use just 1 or 2 monk skills that being condition removal and more attacks skills to do damage.

Whammo's as said will run in with endure pain and hb or mending and do the usual.

What I really hate the most though is W/R who brings a pet but that is for another thread.

bathazard · Feb 09, 2008, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloodied Blade

There's a slight difference between a whammo and a W/Mo-

W/Mo:

Tanks and relies on monk when any real healing is needed. Carries a hard res and possibly a utility skill like Mending Touch.

Whammo:

Runs into combat screaming "MENDING IS TEH UB3R LEEETZ!" while actually believing it.

Edit:

True. Unfortunately things never seem to work out that way. One of the squishie casters tends to catch a few too many fireballs.

not all W/mo use mending touch protection is great for a W/Mo if you know how to maximie a warriors potential.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

In fact the warrior should be the first party member to die. The reason being if your party is being overwhelmed its the warriors job to stand his ground and hold as many foes as possible so that the rest of the party can safely retreat.

If the war is the last one standing I would think the monks screwed something up. A war can be resed in the middle of a fight with only 25%hp and survive several hits before needing, the same can not be said for most squishies.

i can hold aggro and be the last one stnading because they aggroo friggin casters and ~~~~ and then try to kill them rong... piss's me off i tell ya. I'm there holding aggro for like 5 mins as the ele works out what botton M/S is and the ranger sends his stupid pet to agrro another group argh.

Tyla · Feb 09, 2008, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by bathazard

not all W/mo use mending touch protection is great for a W/Mo if you know how to maximie a warriors potential.

The thing is you shouldn't NEED protection prayers on your warrior bar.
There are things called monks.
And i'm talking about primary monks.

The only potential you need on a warrior - is damage, which pretty much beats that of other classes when it comes to raw damage and spike potential.
Not to mention the vast amounts of pressure and inherant armour.

bathazard · Feb 09, 2008, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

The thing is you shouldn't NEED protection prayers on your warrior bar.
There are things called monks.
And i'm talking about primary monks.

i was talking PuG's man have you seen some of the monks... ok u do get a good monk sometimes but with P/Prayers u can get something done without worring about the monk over healing u!

Tyla · Feb 09, 2008, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by bathazard

i was talking PuG's man have you seen some of the monks... ok u do get a good monk sometimes but with P/Prayers u can get something done without worring about the monk over healing u!

Still, using monk skills other than hex removal/mending touch/hardres is stupid, you don't gain much benefit from it.
And besides - even a bad monk knows not to heal someone with full health...

Earth · Feb 09, 2008, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by bathazard

i was talking PuG's man have you seen some of the monks... ok u do get a good monk sometimes but with P/Prayers u can get something done without worring about the monk over healing u!

Healing Signet says hello.

Trvth Jvstice · Feb 10, 2008, 03:23 AM // 03:23

OK, there's something that Really needs to be said in defense of PVE Warrior/Monks . So many of you say a Warrior should ONLY carry Dmg skills, "Attack Warrior wtf!" However-UNLESS you are playing with guildies or friends,in PVE, a Warrior better take some sort of self heal, you know it and I know it. I swear, in PUGs it's about 50/50 that you will get a monk that, 1. has no idea how to manage energy, "wait I told you I have to regen!"-...30 seconds later, "Hold up, let me regen! and so forth" OR 2. "It's OK, I can heal AND smite." You know how well that works OR 3. OK,everyone wait, I have to put you all on bond(sometimes mending-Really!)-then later we get our enchants removed and it's either a mass retreat, or everyone dies. 4... 5...? Come on! there are just as many bad monks, eles, rangers, etc. The problem is, when your party has bad warriors-(since they are the only ones that are expected to absorb any dmg), the monks get over taxed, and everyone dies. That's the Main reason the W/Mo has gottten such a bad rap in PVE--So many use them-because they have to--and invariably, the more W/Mo you have, proportionatly, the more bad examples you will see. OR, not-seems like a good, well grounded argument to me.

Savio · Feb 10, 2008, 04:30 AM // 04:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice

OK, there's something that Really needs to be said in defense of PVE Warrior/Monks . So many of you say a Warrior should ONLY carry Dmg skills, "Attack Warrior wtf!" However-UNLESS you are playing with guildies or friends,in PVE, a Warrior better take some sort of self heal, you know it and I know it.

What does bringing a self-heal have to do with justifying W/Mo's? You may want to look at the post above yours.

Winterclaw · Feb 10, 2008, 04:45 AM // 04:45

Main reasons to go W/Mo:

1. Resusable Res
2. Condition removal
3. Hex removal

Self heals from Healing Prayers are a bad idea because:

1. You already have healing sig
2. In order to get a usable self heal from Healing Prayer, you need between 8-10 points in it, if not 12.
3. You don't really have the energy or the energy regen to waste healing yourself.

There are farming exceptions for this, but they don't make a rule.